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Talk:Myrtle Warren
Horcrux Question - was Myrtle's death and the Diary really the first horcrux creation? I thought it was Tom Riddle Sr and the Gaunt Ring? Mafalda Hopkirk 19:24, 27 November 2007 (UTC) :I always thought it said explicitly in the second book that the Gaunt Ring was first. Syu ::Tom tells Harry in CoS17, "I decided to leave behind a diary, preserving my sixteen-year-old self in its pages" — indicating that the diary Horcrux was created before his seventeenth birthday on December 31, 1943. However, he didn't learn about Horcruxes until after he'd killed Myrtle, his father, and paternal grandparents, because he was already wearing Marvolo's ring when he asked Slughorn for information in HBP23. Myrtle was killed June 13, 1943, near the end of Tom's fifth year at Hogwarts, and Tom Riddle Sr. and his parents over the summer. That means that Tom must have asked Slughorn about Horcruxes at the beginning of his sixth year that September. The diary Horcrux was thus made sometime between September and December 1943. The ring was probably made around the same time, because JKR stated that Myrtle's death was used for the diary, and Tom Sr.'s for the ring. ★ Starstuff (Owl me!) 05:19, 2 March 2009 (UTC) Does the fact that Tom Riddle ordered the snake to kill Myrtle count as creating a horcrux? Because I thought that to make a horcrux you had to kill someone, I assumed that meant that you yourself had to commit the murder. --BachLynn23 16:49, July 21, 2010 (UTC) Glasses Where was it mentioned that she died 'cause she removed her glasses, and she would only be petrified if she was with it?-- Rimaluko talk 02:11, 2 February 2009 (UTC) Nowhere. In fact, Rowling said http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2005/0705-edinburgh-ITVcubreporters.htm it doesn´t protect.--Rodolphus 09:31, 2 February 2009 (UTC) Which makes sense, because everyone ever mentioned that was only petrified by the snake was looking at the snake in some sort of reflection, or in the case of Justin who saw the snake through Nearly Headless Nick, it was simply that Nick took the brunt of the force and where he is already dead didn't make a difference besides petrify him. Looking through your glasses isn't a reflection. --BachLynn23 16:52, July 21, 2010 (UTC) Myrtle did in fact remove her glasses: On her final day of being alive, Myrtle was teased by student Olive Hornby. She had made fun of Myrtle's glasses and, as a result, left Myrtle sobbing. Myrtle then ran into one of the bathroom's stalls, took off her glasses and started crying. That was when Riddle came into the bathroom and started talking parseltongue to open the Chamber of Secrets. Myrtle yelled at him to go away and that was when the door opened and she looked into the Basliks eyes. What BachLynn23 said isn't right, you only get petrified by the Baslisk when you look straight at it. So if Myrtle had left her glasses on, she would have been petrified instead. Alicelouise1 15:37, September 29, 2011 (UTC) :Seeing the Basilisk through glasses will kill as the victim is still looking at it directly. From the Basilisk article: "Wearing glasses will not protect a person from the fatal effect of the basilisk's stare, because glasses still allow one's line of vision to connect directly and clearly with the serpent's eyes, unlike looking in a mirror or through a camera." -Shorty1982 15:42, September 29, 2011 (UTC) :Oh right, I didn't know that. Well anyway, Myrtle died when she had her glasses off, but I guess it doesn't really matter since she would have died with them on anyway. Alicelouise1 15:52, September 29, 2011 (UTC) Died at age 12? Who states that? She could be born between 1924 and 1931.--Rodolphus 14:57, 25 May 2009 (UTC) But she did die at age twelve because she was in her second year when she died wasn't she? That would put her at age twelve.Still Learning 14:19, 18 August 2009 (UTC) :Where is it specified she was in her second year when she died? Just because Harry was in his second year in book 2 doesn't mean she was. - Nick O'Demus 14:26, 18 August 2009 (UTC) She probably was because riddle says that he had to see for himself if she was actually dead and if they were in the same year he would have known straightaway. I remember seeing the transcript of an interview with either Shirly Henderson or J. K. Rowling - can't remember who - which stated that Myrtle was 14. SENIRAM 11:58, August 25, 2011 (UTC) :Good memory. I found the interview and updated the article accordingly. ★ Starstuff (Owl me!) 03:16, August 26, 2011 (UTC) :Do you know where I can find it? SENIRAM 10:07, August 26, 2011 (UTC) :I have been confused by that too, Myrtle died aged 14 in her third year. The date of her starting Hogwarts is wrong and I will try and correct it. It says Myrtle started in 1939 or 1940 which would make her 10 or 11. The age of starting Hogwarts is normally 12, so that would have been year 1941-the same year as Hagrid. I calculated it and came out with this: :1929 -Myrtle born :1939 -10 years old :1940 -11 years old :1941 -Myrtle was 12 in her first year, :1942 -Myrtle was 13 in her second year, :1943 -Myrtle was 14 in her third year and died. :1943 -Myrtle died aged 14 in her third year. :Myrtle was supposedly in Hagrid's year since Hagrid got expelled at 14 in his third year when Riddle framed him for the killings and Myrtle was 14 when she died. But they probably didn't know each other since Myrtle was a Ravenclaw and a loner whilst Hagrid was a Gryffindor and busy with his own 'stuff'. Alicelouise1 15:42, September 29, 2011 (UTC) :No. I just saw I made a mistake. The Chamber wasn't opened until 1942 which would make Myrtle 13 when she died, but I am sure Myrtle was 14 when she died. So either the dates are all wrong, or Myrtle was a late student. Alicelouise1 16:07, September 29, 2011 (UTC) :Rather than saying she started at Hogwarts in either 1940 or 1941, the Wiki should say 1939 or 1940. Evidence: Myrtle dies on 6/13/43 (or perhaps a day before) at the age of 14. Thus, we can apply the following constraints to her date of birth such that she would be 14 years old at time of death: 6/14/28-6/12/29. We know that Hogwarts starts on 9/1, so we can adjust the birth date limits as follows: :If born 6/14/28-8/31/28 (or perhaps 9/1/28 inclusive), would start in 1939. :If born 9/2/28-6/12/29, would start in 1940. :Therefore, Myrtle would've started Hogwarts in either 1939 or 1940, and was thus either a third year or fourth year at the time of her passing. UpToNoGood (talk) 21:03, June 26, 2015 (UTC) : Tom Riddle murdered her? Where does it specifically state that "On Riddle's command, the Basilisk stared at Myrtle..."? I had always assumed that her death was (technically) accidental, that her seeing the basilisk's eye was unintentional.Sings-With-Spirits 15:31, April 14, 2010 (UTC) Though Riddle hated Muggle-Borns!--Intrudgero98 16:51, January 7, 2010 (UTC) :That is no evidence that he gave the command for the basilisk to kill her. Sings-With-Spirits 15:31, April 14, 2010 (UTC) :To be a know-it-all, technically Tom didn't kill her himself but on Myrtles profile on Harrypotter.wikia it says: :Myrtle, still in one of the stalls, recognised the voice as being from a boy. Opening the stall's door, she yelled at Riddle to go away. On Riddle's command, the Basilisk stared at Myrtle, and her eyes met with the monster's. Looking at a Basilisk's eyes being a fatal act, Myrtle's body fell to the bathroom floor. Her death was the murder that Tom (Lord Voldemort) used to make his first Horcrux: the Diary. :And since Tom used her death for his first Horcrux it would make him the killer since he has to kill people himself to split his soul for Horcrux' Alicelouise1 15:45, September 29, 2011 (UTC) brother? Where is it mentioned that she had a brother? I can only recall a mention of Olive Hornby´s brother.--Rodolphus 07:39, 14 July 2009 (UTC) Myrtle's Bathroom Wasn't it on the second floor in the corridor? Still Learning 14:54, 30 July 2009 (UTC) Yes. J K Rowling clearly states that Myrtles bathroom was on the second floor, so it would have to be in the second floor corridor unless it was on the stairs! Muggle Born? where does it mention her being a muggle born, i always assumed she was killed to prevent her from revealing riddle as slytherins heir (bit pointless as she became a ghost, although she never saw who the boy was), therefore she was not killed for being muggle born, and could have been half-blood or pureblood If you look at both her father and mother they are Muggle-born. So that would conclude that she is a muggle. --Profiteor 13:40, 3 August 2009 (UTC) Also chapter 12 of Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets states she is a Muggle. --Profiteor 13:42, 3 August 2009 (UTC) You mean muggle-born, don´t you? Draco mentions this fact to "Crabbe and Goyle."--Rodolphus 13:52, 3 August 2009 (UTC) :In Chamber of Secrets, Ch. 12, Draco tells the disguised Harry and Ron that "last time the Chamber of Secrets was opened, a Mudblood died." He says that he learned this information from his father, and if Myrtle been half-blood or pure-blood, I imagine Lucius Malfoy would have known, and thus would not have regarded her death so callously. ★ Starstuff (Owl me!) 19:55, 14 August 2009 (UTC) I thought that "muggle-born" meant that both your parents were muggles? Or is it like "half-blood", where if any point in your direct line of ancestry there was a muggle ancestor, you and all your children will always be half-blood. --BachLynn23 17:00, July 21, 2010 (UTC) Wait a second when myrtle was killed she heard a strange noise a different language it never dose say that she heard a door opening or not Tom riddle could have actually been there in the bathroom with myrtle looking away while speaking parseltounge commanding the basalisk to kill and when myrtle opened tht cubical door she looked right at the sink and into the basalisks eyes and when she was dead Tom left the scene and went to his dinner and olive came in and looked at myrtle because its possible that myrtle died before her dinner. The above makes a good point. Myrtle was in the wrong place at the wrong time, i.e. in the bathroom when Tom Riddle called it. Hew may have had a different target in mind and it really was a tragic accident. Not that he would care. At any rate from what Myrtle said we never get any hint she was Muggle-Born. Ztyran 18:50, December 19, 2010 (UTC) :In Chamber of Secrets Draco says that "the last time the Chamber of Secrets was opened, a Mudblood died." He was referring to Myrtle. -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 18:56, December 19, 2010 (UTC) :As it is mentioned, Draco Malfoy said the last time the Chamber of Secrets was opened, a Mudblood died. So she was indeed Muggle-born, however Myrtle was not especially targeted by Riddle. After being teased by a classmate about her glasses, Myrtle fled to the bathrooms and was pitying herself when 'someone' came in. She shouted at them to go and then opened the door, only to look straight into the Baslik's eyes. Alicelouise1 15:48, September 29, 2011 (UTC) Has Myrtle passed? How likely is it (IYO) that Myrtle finally moved on once Voldemort was destroyed? While she wasn't there for vengeance on him per se, one's killer being killed is likely something that would affect a spirit--I think. Gojirob 03:28, November 5, 2011 (UTC) :I don't believe ghosts in the Harry Potter universe are capable of "passing on" once they've decided to stay after death. Nearly Headless Nick more or less says exactly that in Order of the Phoenix (I think?). -- 1337star (talk) ::That's always been my impression from everything that's been said in the series-- you make your choice. Either you move on to the "other side" or you remain as a ghost, it's one or the other. Otherwise, many more wizards would probably choose to remain as ghosts. ProfessorTofty 03:54, November 5, 2011 (UTC) crush on harry? wasn't myrtles crush on harry only in the movies?Secret-Lord 23:18, February 21, 2012 (UTC) :Yeah, I think so. I recall in the film that she said that if Harry didn't come back from the Chamber of Secrets, he was welcome to share her toilet, and Ron said she was growing fond of him. But no crushing in the books that I can recall. ProfessorTofty 23:40, February 21, 2012 (UTC) : That scene you are referring to was in the book, not the film. In the film, when Myrtle says that, Ron is not present. MBrody 19:36, November 28, 2017 (UTC) :there is like something of one on draco in hbp i think i can't remmeber i'm re-reading the seriesSecret-Lord 23:45, February 21, 2012 (UTC) ::It's more subtle in the books, but there are hints that Myrtle has a fondness for Harry. Mostly just the way she acts around him, such as the above things that Prof. Tofty pointed out. The film takes these hints and rolls with it. As far as this wiki is concerned, Mrytle's apparent crush on Harry is canon, so it's not like it matters anyway. -- 1337star (Owl Post) 23:52, February 21, 2012 (UTC) Name Was Myrtle her first name or surname? Or was it never stated? --Hunnie Bunn (talk) 16:22, October 19, 2013 (UTC) :Also, is it ever said what year she was in? If it was her third year, we know she was born in either October, November or December. --Hunnie Bunn (talk) 16:29, October 19, 2013 (UTC) ::I don't believe we have solid information on either. She's always been either just "Myrtle" or "Moaning Myrtle", but it's never been said whether that's her first or last name. And the same for what year she was in-- we don't appear to have that information. ProfessorTofty (talk) 00:20, November 8, 2013 (UTC) Ravenclaw? It says she was in Ravenclaw, then why in the movies was she given a green tie? Cerenbus.Snape.Malfoy (talk) 01:38, September 3, 2014 (UTC) :It looks more grey to me, or at least so washed-out its colour is indeterminate. It certainly looks different than Riddle's house tie. Whatever colour it is, anyway, it was probably chosen to look best when made transparent. -- 1337star (Drop me a line!) 01:55, September 3, 2014 (UTC) :The grey appearance of Myrtle's tie is probably due to the fact that she's a ghost. :Seniram 19:32, September 7, 2014 (UTC) Date of death Where does Myrtle's date of death come from? I cannot find a source and I don't see how it was deduced! Thank you --Kates39 (talk) 21:01, August 20, 2016 (UTC) :It comes directly from , just before Riddle's diary takes him back 50 years to 1943: "The pages of the diary began to blow as though caught in a high wind, stopping halfway through the month of June. Mouth hanging open, Harry saw that the little square for June thirteenth seemed to have turned into a minuscule television screen.". -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 01:24, August 21, 2016 (UTC) :: Thank you! I will add a reference to her page. I didn't quite see that when I re read the part in the book! --Kates39 (talk) 21:01, August 20, 2016 (UTC) :::Could Myrtle have died the day before? Harry sees the body being taken on June 13th -- i.e. Myrtle has already passed -- but she herself says it "Took them hours to find my body — I know, I was sitting there waiting for them." Is there a chance it was late at night that Myrtle died? Would Tom risk opening the Chamber in the day and be found out if someone walked in? At that time it was a fully functioning bathroom. --HarryPotterRules1 (talk) 20:11, January 8, 2017 (UTC) ::::Could be, though I find it more likely that she died that same day. When Riddle comes to talk to Dippet in it's nearly nightfall "The sky outside the window was ruby-red; it seemed to be sunset". Myrtle had been being bullied by Olive Hornby when she went into the bathroom, so I think that reasonably excludes late night 12-13 June (when most students are sleeping and/or confined to their common rooms). If she'd been killed in the early morning of the 13th (which I think is more likely), no one would have seen her for almost a whole school day (possibly teachers then alerting Dippet to the fact that she had skipped that day's classes) and it would fit in with the "took them hours to find my body" (hours being the keyword, not days or almost a whole day). -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 21:22, January 8, 2017 (UTC) Elizabeth Warren, US Senator With Myrtle’s full name being Myrtle Elizabeth Warren and the controversy with US politician Elizabeth Warren, could a fictionalised version of her be Myrtle Warren's mother? That would make sense, because J. K. Rowling gives characters the first name of one of their parents as their middle name. But there’s 2 things debunking this. 1. The US politician is American, so if she’s Myrtle’s mother, Myrtle would have attended Ilvermorny School of Witchcraft and Wizardry, unless either the Warren family moved to Britain or Myrtle wrote a special letter to Hogwarts. 2. Rowling said that Myrtle’s full name has nothing to do with the U.S politician and that Elizabeth is a classic Britain middle name, probably coz of Elizabeth I and Elizabeth II. Beverlyjones (talk) 13:04, December 7, 2018 (UTC) :The above hypothesis is due to a blog connecting the name of the senator with Myrtle's revealed full name, and spinning a fake "controversy" out of the "connection". However if you read the blog article beyond the opening paragraphs, it admits that the "connection" is just a coincidence — one of a very common type besides; the Tv Tropes Wiki's "Name's The Same" pages list thousands upon thousands of this sort of thing, and indeed already lists (on its "Real vs. Fictional" sub-page) an example involving the senator and a different fictional Elizabeth Warren. You could just as well argue that Harry Potter is the constable from the Jeeves and Wooster novels. — evilquoll (talk) 03:59, January 8, 2019 (UTC) Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Myrtle was omitted from the Half-Blood Prince movie, yes. But does this mean that she was cut out of the movie? Or haven't they filmed anything with this character at all? --Exodianecross (talk) 02:27, December 15, 2019 (UTC)